10 days old here, but I still don't know their names.
Most of the time, goat birthing and kid rearing are without problems. I let
the moms feed and raise their kids until they want to wean them. (Well, the
little girls. The little boys tend to get bucky and rambunctious at an early
age and so are often weaned earlier than they'd like). While Caroline had an easy kidding, several days later I detected there was a problem. She went off her feed and stopped drinking. A few days later, she laid down and refused to get up.
This was quite alarming, because when a goat goes down and won't get up,
they often give up. And it gave me two problems to deal with, one was her,
the other was feeding her kids. One of them figured out she could still
nurse as long as she saw a teat, the other didn't catch on to
that. I figured out that one side of Caroline's udder was
congested, and I suspected mastitis as well. I'm not sure why it happened,
because I wasn't milking her yet. With Caroline not eating or drinking,
her milk supply would dwindle quickly.
That's their mom, Caroline, in the background
I started treating Caroline with herbs, antibiotics, and B vitamin
injections, and decided to put the kids a bottle. This can be tricky once
kids start on their moms. In that case, they usually refuse the bottle.
But they took to it quickly and got their tummies full. As a side note,
there is apparently a different technique nursing from a bottle as opposed
to their mom. Even after getting used to it, they still have to negotiate
the bottle nipple before they latch on.
It was such a relief when Caroline finally started drinking water again.
She started nibbling on fresh greens soon after that. Then came the
morning when she was on her feet when I got to the barn. I was so
relieved. I can't help but wonder if those kids didn't give her the will
to live.
She's still thin but no longer looks and acts distressed. Her appetite is
back to normal and she is nursing the kids. The congested side is a tad
better but it's still congested and difficult to get much milk from it.
The little girls work it, but it's obvious they don't get much. Their
interest in the bottle varies: sometimes they both finish off their
bottles eagerly, sometimes only part of it, and sometimes one or the other (or both) won't be interested. I'll continue to offer these supplemental feedings
for as long as is necessary.
Even with Caroline's problem, her girls are thriving.
I'm careful not to feed too much with the bottle, so they will
continue to nurse.
That and good feed are the best ways to build up her milk supply again.
While I'm on the subject of kids, how about a few more pics and a video?
Ursa's boys. They are a week older than Caroline's girls.
Oh no, glad you got it figured out. I had to laugh when I cleaned out a cupboard and found coke bottles and goat nipples we used to bottle feed our goats one year. That was a while ago. Loved seeing the photos etc.
Leigh, this points to why daily contact with animals is a necessary and important thing - it allows us to detect small changes in behavior that would go unnoticed if we just put some food in and went about our business.
A few years ago I noticed Joy the Rabbit was not eating. That was unusual for her (it is unusual for any rabbit) and so rather than wait to see if it worked out, I took her in the vet. Turns out she had liver torsion, which is generally fatal in rabbits. One surgery later, she is still with us.
And kid pictures and a video? Pretty sure this is indicative of it being a really good day.
Kristina, coke bottles! Gosh, are those even sold anymore? I was happy that I had some bottles that fit the Pritchard nipples. It pays to have emergency supplies on hand.
TB, exactly! Ongoing interaction with our critters is vital to detecting changes in behavior. They can't complain in words, so we have to look at behavior.
Good for you for being so quick with your bunny! It's a always a relief to have them recover after our intervention.
Fortunately with pigs and large litters, nursing by bottle was only saved for the most dire of cases. With them, we were able to dip their noses in a dish of supplemental milk and they would lap it up. But mortality among those on supplemental milk was probably three or four times hire than one nursing on a teat. Those that survived childhood, were often very slow growers and thus probably never made any money for us. We only hoped to just break even on them.
Your animal work is labor intensive. And you need to be tuned in to them quickly, to detect even small changes. Good thing your herd is small enough to know the individuals well. I'm glad she's feeling better. I expect you are, too!
Ed, that's interesting about the pigs. We were fortunate with our pigs that we never had any problems, but I know that's not only the case. I've heard of some people who teach goat kids to drink their milk from a dish, but I wonder if this doesn't cause problems too because of goats' digestive systems. The heads up position for nursing bypasses the stomachs that digest solid food, so the milk goes directly to the stomach designed for baby milk. That doesn't happen in the head down position.
Boud, but it joyful work! I don't enjoy the problems, but there's a sense of satisfaction in solving them. Fortunately, problems are rare.
oh my goodness! So glad you got her going again! It is so upsetting when they go down like that. I am glad that she and the babies are doing ok though! sending hugs.
Flynn, thank you! It is such a relief to see her normal again. Plus, yesterday and today, neither of her girls was all that interested in their bottle! I'll keep offering for awhile, but it seems like Caroline's milk production is back up and meeting their needs.
What herbs did you use/where did you learn about that? We got some young Nigerian Dwarf milkers this spring and we’re looking to learn about all the ways of holistically caring for them, especially when they are bred and kid sometime next year. Mastitis is no joke!
Anonymous, I agree! Firstly, I'm going to suggest that you join the Holistic Goats email chat group - https://groups.io/g/Holistic-Goats. That is the best place for for holistic goat care information support, and to ask questions. Many extremely knowledgeable people there!
One of the (unlikely seeming) suggestions from a long-time goat pro there is to feed the doe her own milk from the infected side of the udder. The rationale is that her body is already producing the correct antibodies for her infection, which are passed on in her milk. So, you're feeding her the antibodies she needs to fight the infection. Sounds crazy, but it works! Many does will willingly drink their own milk, but it can also be give with a dosing syringe.
I also make a drench of apple juice, garlic, and fresh oregano (or oregano tincture) and give the does 10 cc orally 3 or 4 times a day. Once they find out this tastes good (apple juice) they take it willingly. For congestion of the udder, I'm finding that a comfrey leaf salve is really helping. Her udder isn't back to "normal" but it's much softer and less uncomfortable for her.
P.S. I forgot to mention - vitamin C, 500 mg twice a day, in addition to the above. Caroline wouldn't eat the tablet (even coated with molasses, she just licked the molasses off) so I crush it and sprinkle it on her food.
Wonderful news it all worked out but I am ignoring all your pics because you will not sucker me in to more goats, or lambs or ANYTHING that breathes by posting cute baby pictures. I am not looking!!!
So thankful that you were able to get Caroline back on her feet and milking again. Those baby goats are sure cute - love the way they right away start butting heads...
Forgot to return for you answer until now. I do think drinking from a dish is not beneficial for whatever the reason. The piglets we did this with had a higher mortality rate than those that nursed, often got quite obese which caused other problems and then later grew quite a bit slower than their counterparts. I don't know why this happened (other than the quality of the milk replacement we used) and only have observational evidence.
We would try to have 10 to 13 sows give birth at the same time producing 100 to 150 piglets. Of all those, we might average just two or three orphans/runts/etc. that we would try to feed in our ICU pen with a milk dish they could drink from. Not to many on the grand scheme of things.
21 comments:
Oh no, glad you got it figured out. I had to laugh when I cleaned out a cupboard and found coke bottles and goat nipples we used to bottle feed our goats one year. That was a while ago. Loved seeing the photos etc.
Glad Caroline is doing better and that the kids took to the bottle. A farmer's work is never easy!
Leigh, this points to why daily contact with animals is a necessary and important thing - it allows us to detect small changes in behavior that would go unnoticed if we just put some food in and went about our business.
A few years ago I noticed Joy the Rabbit was not eating. That was unusual for her (it is unusual for any rabbit) and so rather than wait to see if it worked out, I took her in the vet. Turns out she had liver torsion, which is generally fatal in rabbits. One surgery later, she is still with us.
And kid pictures and a video? Pretty sure this is indicative of it being a really good day.
Kristina, coke bottles! Gosh, are those even sold anymore? I was happy that I had some bottles that fit the Pritchard nipples. It pays to have emergency supplies on hand.
Daisy, so true!
TB, exactly! Ongoing interaction with our critters is vital to detecting changes in behavior. They can't complain in words, so we have to look at behavior.
Good for you for being so quick with your bunny! It's a always a relief to have them recover after our intervention.
Fortunately with pigs and large litters, nursing by bottle was only saved for the most dire of cases. With them, we were able to dip their noses in a dish of supplemental milk and they would lap it up. But mortality among those on supplemental milk was probably three or four times hire than one nursing on a teat. Those that survived childhood, were often very slow growers and thus probably never made any money for us. We only hoped to just break even on them.
Your animal work is labor intensive. And you need to be tuned in to them quickly, to detect even small changes. Good thing your herd is small enough to know the individuals well. I'm glad she's feeling better. I expect you are, too!
Ed, that's interesting about the pigs. We were fortunate with our pigs that we never had any problems, but I know that's not only the case. I've heard of some people who teach goat kids to drink their milk from a dish, but I wonder if this doesn't cause problems too because of goats' digestive systems. The heads up position for nursing bypasses the stomachs that digest solid food, so the milk goes directly to the stomach designed for baby milk. That doesn't happen in the head down position.
Boud, but it joyful work! I don't enjoy the problems, but there's a sense of satisfaction in solving them. Fortunately, problems are rare.
oh my goodness! So glad you got her going again! It is so upsetting when they go down like that. I am glad that she and the babies are doing ok though! sending hugs.
Flynn, thank you! It is such a relief to see her normal again. Plus, yesterday and today, neither of her girls was all that interested in their bottle! I'll keep offering for awhile, but it seems like Caroline's milk production is back up and meeting their needs.
What herbs did you use/where did you learn about that? We got some young Nigerian Dwarf milkers this spring and we’re looking to learn about all the ways of holistically caring for them, especially when they are bred and kid sometime next year. Mastitis is no joke!
Anonymous, I agree! Firstly, I'm going to suggest that you join the Holistic Goats email chat group - https://groups.io/g/Holistic-Goats. That is the best place for for holistic goat care information support, and to ask questions. Many extremely knowledgeable people there!
One of the (unlikely seeming) suggestions from a long-time goat pro there is to feed the doe her own milk from the infected side of the udder. The rationale is that her body is already producing the correct antibodies for her infection, which are passed on in her milk. So, you're feeding her the antibodies she needs to fight the infection. Sounds crazy, but it works! Many does will willingly drink their own milk, but it can also be give with a dosing syringe.
I also make a drench of apple juice, garlic, and fresh oregano (or oregano tincture) and give the does 10 cc orally 3 or 4 times a day. Once they find out this tastes good (apple juice) they take it willingly. For congestion of the udder, I'm finding that a comfrey leaf salve is really helping. Her udder isn't back to "normal" but it's much softer and less uncomfortable for her.
P.S. I forgot to mention - vitamin C, 500 mg twice a day, in addition to the above. Caroline wouldn't eat the tablet (even coated with molasses, she just licked the molasses off) so I crush it and sprinkle it on her food.
Wonderful news it all worked out but I am ignoring all your pics because you will not sucker me in to more goats, or lambs or ANYTHING that breathes by posting cute baby pictures. I am not looking!!!
Glad everyone is doing well for sure though!!
Orion looks like he is contemplating what mischief he can get into or cause...
PP, lol. Baby critters are the best. Very fun and very tempting!
Kevin, he and his brother are two of a kind! lol
So thankful that you were able to get Caroline back on her feet and milking again. Those baby goats are sure cute - love the way they right away start butting heads...
Susan, me too! I'm happy it resolved quickly. Still offering a bottle several times a day, but they only seem interested at night.
Forgot to return for you answer until now. I do think drinking from a dish is not beneficial for whatever the reason. The piglets we did this with had a higher mortality rate than those that nursed, often got quite obese which caused other problems and then later grew quite a bit slower than their counterparts. I don't know why this happened (other than the quality of the milk replacement we used) and only have observational evidence.
We would try to have 10 to 13 sows give birth at the same time producing 100 to 150 piglets. Of all those, we might average just two or three orphans/runts/etc. that we would try to feed in our ICU pen with a milk dish they could drink from. Not to many on the grand scheme of things.
Fascinating advice. I will join the group- very glad to find something that isn’t tied to FB! Thank you so much!
You're welcome! I agree about FB!
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