tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post8779923224287227028..comments2024-03-28T12:01:24.909-04:00Comments on 5 Acres & A Dream: Double Digging for Rainwater CollectionLeighhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02435811789823712254noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-86913830095184355862019-01-11T13:51:51.179-05:002019-01-11T13:51:51.179-05:00Hi Jeff. Welcome! Thank you for taking the time to...Hi Jeff. Welcome! Thank you for taking the time to comment. I love getting to know others who have similar goals. <br /><br />It definitely sounds like we have the same soil. Cecil sandy loam extends from Alabama to Maryland; very common here in the southeast. To answer your question, my beds run kinda perpendicular to the slope. We made them to terrace down the most obvious slope but later realized that the ground also slopes gently to the side. I don't know if I explained that very well, but what happens is exactly as you describe - one end of the bed drains quickly while the other end contains a huge puddle for several more days. I entertained redigging and rearranging all the beds for half a nanosecond, but that was it. It would just be too much work. What I did was to dig out the highest end a little more in hopes of leveling the bottom of the bed. So looking down into the freshly dug swale one end is deeper than the other. On the other hand, by the time I fill it with all my hugelkultur materials I don't know if it will make that much difference, since I'm not tilling them every year. My goals are to build the soil and retain moisture, and I'm finding that my hugelkulture swale beds are a good step toward that. I water these beds less frequently than the others. <br /><br />I looked to see if you have a blog but your web page came up not found. It would be interesting to see your garden. Leighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02435811789823712254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-63366832916763263692019-01-11T09:13:46.337-05:002019-01-11T09:13:46.337-05:00Hi Leigh! I came across this post and it was an ah...Hi Leigh! I came across this post and it was an aha moment for me. I'm in middle Georgia, and have the exact same soil as you do. Well, not exact but pretty darn close. Two feet of sandy topsoil, then red clay and then... SANDSTONE... No wonder they named this county Rockdale. :) Anyway I have a few questions. I assume your beds run perpendicular to the slope? I have a literal square acre with 200' long, 30" wide raised beds, but before I knew any better, I designed it going not perpendicular, but not parallel, either. The obvious answer to my dilemma is to rotate the entire "square" acre and start over... uh, no. So to illustrate, the top end of my beds are draining fairly well, but the bottoms are wet and the walkway/trenches fill up. I use a walk behind with a rotary plow to make the beds/trench-walkways. It's looking more likely I need to make a swale bed on the contour above the garden, and plant figs or something. If you were me, would you completely rotate (and remake about 45 beds...), or do you have any suggestions? I'm not lazy, just getting older and my back isn't what it used to be. Thanks for the info and the great blog! JeffJeff Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00969301699290980998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-73472958708393496972017-04-16T20:37:29.712-04:002017-04-16T20:37:29.712-04:00Hmm, that way you would eventually create two foot...Hmm, that way you would eventually create two foot high quality soil over several years. I like that idea. Maybe if I were younger I'd do that too! My kind of soil compacts all to easily, so I'm kinda hoping these will be permanent beds. It's usually the wiregrass that takes over and defeats me there, but maybe one of these years I'll defeat it. Leighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02435811789823712254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-79374767172159730172017-04-16T18:44:28.457-04:002017-04-16T18:44:28.457-04:00I was once counseled by a guy from Maine. He sugg...I was once counseled by a guy from Maine. He suggested that I only worry about gardening the soil in a 2' x 2' hole. Make up a 100' grid and dig a series of holes. Garden in them this year. Next year move the grid over two feet. Keep doing it 2 feet over until eventually all the soil will be enriched 2' down and it wouldn't kill me to try to dig up the whole thing. Now, I have an excavator. I am clearing a 100 sqft. section adjacent to last year's pumpkin patch. I use the rocks elsewhere and fill in the difference with barn leavings. I hope to be able to send all the spring overflow in my beds down there. My clay here is pretty unforgiving, too. The reality of New England is the rocks. What you dig up this year will only be replaced by the frost heaving from next year. <br /><br />I look forward to seeing what you are able to grow this year!Farmer Barbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07596672416236302171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-91230735492942566182017-04-14T17:31:00.852-04:002017-04-14T17:31:00.852-04:00Su Ba, that is so interesting about your soil and ...Su Ba, that is so interesting about your soil and your similar solution! I've been doing quite a bit of research on soil and find it to be a fascinating subject. Sepp Holzer creates "humus pits" at the bottom of some of his slopes to catch rain runoff plus whatever they wash down. He digs them out periodically too, and uses it for fertilizer.<br /><br />It seems the no-till method works best in vegetable gardening as raised beds. You can just make your own soil and not have to deal with the soil that's naturally there. My biggest frustration is our "wiregrass," which grows up through raised beds and acts like a vine while taking over and choking everything else out. I get a lot of suggestions for mulch, which does slow it down, but it doesn't stop it. Leighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02435811789823712254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-52981833284293305172017-04-14T14:24:39.112-04:002017-04-14T14:24:39.112-04:00I don't have clay, nor your soil type, but bas...I don't have clay, nor your soil type, but based upon my own experience and experiments on my lava-soil farm, I'd say you have a great idea going there! <br /><br />My "top soil" originally consisted of hydrophobic degraded organic material mixed with volcanic dust. Like your sand, it drains rapidly, but is very reluctant to get wet in the first place. Below it (1"-10") is cracked pahoehoe lava which acts as your clay in that it does not allow the passage of much water, thus rainwater flows downhill atop the lava. When I first started developing my gardens I was puzzled that almost all the land looked like it was in some arid region rather than a place that got 60"-80" of annual rain. Plus after a rain I had boggy ponds in the lower areas. <br /><br />In some areas I created trenches in the cracked lava and made beds just as you describe. Wow, they worked! Not super the first year, but every year they have been getting better. Every year I redig and incorporate more organic material because the original compost, weeds, and manure decompose causing the bed surface to sink. These beds do successfully capture water resulting in less flooding lower down. My bogs no longer appear after a rain and the garden beds don't dry out as quickly. Oh, I still have to water because of our drought cycles here, but on moderate years I've managed to get through a growing cycle with very little irrigation. <br /><br />I hope this scheme works out for you too! <br /><br />As for double digging, tilling, permaculture, etc......as they say in permaculture, it depends. Every situation is different. On my own 20 acres I have areas that tilling is not a good solution, but then there are sections that are far more improved by repetitive digging. Su Bahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09125127467859054156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-81190345338799919882017-04-12T22:01:51.954-04:002017-04-12T22:01:51.954-04:00Me too. It's tough having to ration water duri...Me too. It's tough having to ration water during a long hot dry spell; to have to pick and choose which plants get it. It may take me awhile to get all my beds converted, but it should be a long-lasting solution for happier and more productive plants. Leighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02435811789823712254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-29002079868075639222017-04-12T21:38:48.311-04:002017-04-12T21:38:48.311-04:00Looks brilliant- hope it solves the problem for yo...Looks brilliant- hope it solves the problem for you!jewlzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13388035539612539051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-24156351631145056352017-04-12T06:09:26.631-04:002017-04-12T06:09:26.631-04:00No apology necessary! Some people are angry and je...No apology necessary! Some people are angry and jealous about everything and everybody and this is what they do. Trolls are just a fact of internet living. Leighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02435811789823712254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-76529664464787205542017-04-11T22:07:56.606-04:002017-04-11T22:07:56.606-04:00Off Topic. Got your comment about "Chloe"...Off Topic. Got your comment about "Chloe". Sorry about that. I replied and gave some background on that particular individual. Again, sorry he is bothering you.Harry Flashmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05071021900005041592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-83237146287055733912017-04-11T21:32:25.989-04:002017-04-11T21:32:25.989-04:00After last summer and running out of rainwater and...After last summer and running out of rainwater and losing so much of the garden, I just had to do something. Building soil from the top down that is deep enough to hold moisture would take many seasons! We've improved our soil considerably, but still have a long way to go. Would love to eventually connect some swales to these. Leighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02435811789823712254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-64910466539094316072017-04-11T21:04:19.520-04:002017-04-11T21:04:19.520-04:00Good interventions. Ideally you would grow more to...Good interventions. Ideally you would grow more topsoil, by growing cover crops and slashing them back into the ground. Which then adds more humus to soak in the water. <br /><br />However, that takes several seasons, to build enough spongy humus topsoil. In the meantime, you can do strategic interventions like this. It will be great to see the results. :)Chris https://www.blogger.com/profile/13715819899708384147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-72255820156405179792017-04-11T15:00:24.018-04:002017-04-11T15:00:24.018-04:00We have Bermuda grass too! It's the "wire...We have Bermuda grass too! It's the "wiregrass" I complain about so often. <i>sigh</i><br /><br />The <a href="https://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/HomePage.htm" rel="nofollow">Web Soil Survey website</a> is an excellent place to pinpoint your soil and learn more about it. You can even search by your address. It really helped me to understand everything I'd been observing, and that was the first step in knowing what to do to improve it. Leighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02435811789823712254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-49150036547160780042017-04-11T13:28:00.718-04:002017-04-11T13:28:00.718-04:00Leigh, You are so knowledgeable and I know it has ...Leigh, You are so knowledgeable and I know it has come from many hours spent researching and working outdoors. Thank you for sharing it with us. I think that is probably similar to the soil we have here in AR but we also have Bermuda Grass which has left me no choice but to garden in containers for now. Sam I Am......https://www.blogger.com/profile/17358633233189452832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-52922156233574465622017-04-11T12:48:14.707-04:002017-04-11T12:48:14.707-04:00Even permaculture acknowledges and uses earthworks...Even permaculture acknowledges and uses earthworks to build terraces, swales, and ponds. Dan's and my introduction to permaculture was with Sepp Holzer's book and we were astonished at how he uses heavy machinery to rearrange large areas in the first stages of implementing a design. I consider my double-dug beds and swales to be small scale earthworks. :)<br /><br />Learning about your soil will be fun and truly key to how you work with it. Leighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02435811789823712254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-21085018870155619322017-04-11T09:30:59.519-04:002017-04-11T09:30:59.519-04:00Hi Leigh :) Thanks for the details in your post. I...Hi Leigh :) Thanks for the details in your post. I have no clue what the soil is like here, but we have a soil testing kit that I'll use in a month or so when the snow melts and the ground is workable.<br /><br />I've read on some blogs that people refuse to double dig, but I saw a video on it, and I will be double digging the area where I plan my pumpkin patch. I'm not into big tillers at all, because I do care about the earth's environment under there and I don't want to disturb things too much.Rain https://www.blogger.com/profile/14377719049819222133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-50246491285842684382017-04-11T04:57:50.194-04:002017-04-11T04:57:50.194-04:00I'm not sure which is harder to work with -
s...I'm not sure which is harder to work with -<br /> sand or clay. Compost is definitely the answer for both! You probably mulch too, which I find builds soil as well. Leighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02435811789823712254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-54009539296614818042017-04-11T04:46:17.382-04:002017-04-11T04:46:17.382-04:00Dan was just working on drainage around the house ...Dan was just working on drainage around the house yesterday. Ideally we should be able to redirect water from places where it needs drainage to spots where water is needed!Leighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02435811789823712254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-64097068710713701562017-04-10T22:34:38.166-04:002017-04-10T22:34:38.166-04:00Our soil here is sandy, it doesn't retain wate...Our soil here is sandy, it doesn't retain water at all. I compost my grass clippings, chicken coop bedding/pooh, and leaves. I am hoping eventually, I will have some decent soil.Jason and Michellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11860762982914983418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-58502880950501278612017-04-10T12:18:36.972-04:002017-04-10T12:18:36.972-04:00Thanks for the info Leigh. We have some areas that...Thanks for the info Leigh. We have some areas that need to have water catchments & others that we need to drain better.DFWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18345712839702427280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-84030502285529690872017-04-10T12:00:16.332-04:002017-04-10T12:00:16.332-04:00Dani, that's an excellent idea. I find that al...Dani, that's an excellent idea. I find that all of my raised beds dry out quickest, so maybe this would help for them too. Leighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02435811789823712254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-87775923137097937202017-04-10T10:05:57.849-04:002017-04-10T10:05:57.849-04:00We have the same type of soil - thin layer of top ...We have the same type of soil - thin layer of top soil above red rock filled clay.<br /><br />I did what you did in my one shadecloth veggie patch and, together with the mulch, the harvest this year was outstanding :D I know you'll see the difference too...Danihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04020970904311512357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-81730724149671486052017-04-10T09:27:16.711-04:002017-04-10T09:27:16.711-04:00It's only sunken under ground, LOL. I could ev...It's only sunken under ground, LOL. I could even build a raised bed directly about them. Leighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02435811789823712254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-83871415225074524322017-04-10T09:15:28.123-04:002017-04-10T09:15:28.123-04:00looks like a sunken garden vs a raised garden. lo...looks like a sunken garden vs a raised garden. looks like a great plan. Hope you get great yields. My apple tree has budded out, but I need to have it treated...it's sick. :( I should also get out there and prep the bed for this year.Renee Nefehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08167893445846427824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1694364001063554832.post-31682016322189241812017-04-10T08:31:17.184-04:002017-04-10T08:31:17.184-04:00Thanks Mike, I sincerely hope it is useful to some...Thanks Mike, I sincerely hope it is useful to some gardeners out there. We all have different situations when it comes to gardening, which really makes it challenging sometimes, to find answers to problems and questions. Leighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02435811789823712254noreply@blogger.com